dscheer – Page 20 – Scripture Thoughts

Author: dscheer (page 20 of 33)

Christianized Chain Letters in Cyberspace

The Bible does not deal directly with chain letters, even those containing Scriptural messages. We therefore need to apply Biblical verses and principles to this issue. We must also seek God to discern if there is an errant spirit behind the scene that is working against believers. Remember, Satan spoke even through Peter at one point when Peter thought was he was trying to help Jesus see the danger in entering Jerusalem (Matthew 16:23). The spiritual realm can be tricky for us mortals, so we must depend on God to show us things.

Scriptures that I believe apply to this issue are:

“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” – 2 Timothy 1:7
“So that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.” 2 Corinthians 2:11
“Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.” – Genesis 3:1
“No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.” – 2 Corinthians 11:14
“All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness.” – 2 Timothy 3:16

All chain letters are subtly focused on self. Their challenge is: IF you love God, THEN you must do this so YOU can get something out of it. If I don’t send it to 10 others, does this mean I don’t love God? Will I be in serious disobedience to His command? Enter fear and doubt, although usually subtly. Actually, the discerning question is: Is this HIS command?

The problem is that these things can create a fear within us. It says, “If you do not obey this directive, then God will be displeased with you.” Now we’ve opened ourselves up to superstition. Furthermore, in the words of my Pastor Mark DuPre, chain letters “bring false guilt and condemnation, and there is a spirit of control behind them that works with the fear of the recipient. All that distorts the character of God and the grace of the gospel.”

When I throw away chain letters without responding to their commands, I feel confident in God that I am in good standing by His grace and mercy toward me, and all I need to do to be anointed in affecting others in a good way is to seek His face in prayer, and believe in His Word. Now I am sure some Christians pass chain letters along because they just like the contents, and no fear/superstition is a part of it. They may think my view is too judgmental. I can understand were they are coming from. But this attitude seems not to think of how others might be affected. So if you wish to send the contents along to others, at least delete the command to pass it on to 10 others in order to get some kind of blessing from God. Then you will not be a stumbling block to someone else (you have eliminated the fear and selfish factors). In other words, “chew the meat and spit out the bones” with this whole issue.

Regarding the number of people to contact, if God was orchestrating these messages, He would not demand the same number of forwardings every time. There is nothing holy or anointed with the number 10. My advice? If you want to bless someone else, just do it apart from chain letter commands. The bottom line is, that under the power and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, we do not give to get.

Love in Christ,

Dave

P.S. – Pass this on to 10 others so God can open the floodgates of heaven for you….just kiddin.’

Feedback:

AR: Thank you for your explanation and verses. I have been dealing with these in much the same way by deleting the chain portion and commands. If I feel there is a worthwhile message to some of them I simply suggest that it be shared with others who may appreciate the contents. Others I simply delete, knowing that God is in control, not me. God bless you all.

Dave: Thanks for your response. I always think it is so cool when two people, who never have been instructed on something, come up with the same feeling about whatever. It affirms that it is the same Holy Spirit teaching His kids.

CrL: Interesting topic idea, and I of course agree 110%. There is also a serious problem with misinformation. Agreeing with the overall point of the message (Christian theology, political position, whatever) never justifies forwarding something with wrong information, and it ends up seriously damaging the position anyway. For me personally, the problem is so bad that I actually assume the facts contain some significant inaccuracies (with respect to forwarded emails). Usually they simply do not interest me, but at times I use snopes.com or other sources to check information. I know that this was probably a bit outside of the scope – you might have been only referring to emails that say something in general (like a ‘nice’ message or something), but it reminded me of the above.

Dave: Thanks for your response. And I agree with your 110% (not sure what that extra 10% contains though). I thought about mentioning that “accuracy piece” but did not want to divert too much from the main topic, but your point is something that I would have stated as you have done.

G: LOL Amen, good job. I forwarded to 9 people.

Dave: Stinker.

Linda B – Much like political emails, I delete all chain letter stuff. I pass on what I am led to share, not what I’m ordered to share. Blessed day all. 🙂

Outer Space Aliens

January 8, 2018 / dscheer / 0 Comments

Modern controversy – Ever since Erich Von Daniken produced the movie “Chariots of the Gods” in 1970, people are beginning to believe that all Ezekiel saw here was a UFO and aliens rather than something supernatural. The History Channel has jumped on his theories and have brought more “evidence” to support their claims that aliens have created our DNA and are monitoring our progress perhaps as part of an experiment gone bad or a major part in their future breeding. If so, then all their “breeds” have died! That doesn’t sound like a feasible theory if aliens are super intelligent! These programs present only parts of the Biblical accounts that make their ideas look credible. They never offer theories on who designed all the other diverse life forms on this planet. They never deal with the fact their “their alien creators” never tell us what we are supposed to be doing. The God of the Bible does tell us these things. They have spent much time describing what Ezekiel saw, all peppered with their interpretations. They always omit, however, things that do not make sense to their thinking. In this case, they totally neglect to describe what Ezekiel saw ABOVE the supposed UFO. He saw something that looked like a throne with a man (not a “grey”) sitting on it, radiating with light. Ezekiel says it was the “glory of the Lord” and he proceeded to fall on his face. Then he heard a voice that would give him specific instructions!

To UFO advocates, “god” is no more worthy of being worshiped than a stone. Their hope is that we evolve enough to be as smart as they are some day. Wow, maybe that’s a nice thought for humans of a far-into-the-future time (assuming we’re evolving), but that does not speak well for the millions of people who have died and those who are alive now (since we still die and cannot compete with “the greys” yet).

The major tenet of their faith is that aliens, who have evolved farther than us, have designed human DNA as part of some experiment or, worst still, some way to extend their own bio needs. So the alien theorists have substituted the real God for a false one. This is described in Romans 1:25: “For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.” But have you ever noticed what they do not do? They never complain against their “creators” like they do against the real Creator. Where is all that anger against those who supposedly made us? Life on earth is tough, unfair, violent, and we all die!! Mention these evils to the “space alien guys” and they will scoff at the God of the Bible, but spare this animosity when they talk about aliens.

In addition, the theorists never attempt to explain where the “greys” came from, or what made all the other life forms on this earth, as well as all of the non-life forms that are essential to sustain life.

I think the bottom line problem is that fallen humans still have the same problem as Adam and Eve had in the Garden of Eden. We all want to make our own rules while we do not want some one to rule over us…no matter how perfectly Good that Someone is.

Therefore, the human need is not more evolution (this never happened anyway) or some minor tweaking within our DNA by space aliens. We need a 100% re-do. That process begins when we humble ourselves as a little child, as Jesus said. God’s spiritual surgery is the only remedy to our plight on earth. We will perceive life differently when this happens as we enter the only Kingdom (do I dare say rulership?) that will last forever. Thank you so much Jesus for making this transformation from death to Life possible!

Therefore, do not be taken in by this End-Time deception. God promises those who have been born-again in Christ “instant evolution” when we are saved and later resurrected in new bodies, and are seated with Christ forever! Earthly evolution does not wrought the change that humans really need. Our problem is not lack of knowledge, lack of technology, or IQ level. God’s “instant evolution” does the necessary “surgery” needed in order to live forever during His planned ages to come when evil no longer exists.

Evolutionary thinking permeates the alien theories. The theory of evolution, which cannot be scientifically demonstrated, contradicts both Old and New Testament statements. Advocates assume that ancient man was too ignorant to build monuments with astronomical accuracy or to make the pyramids without sophisticated intelligence outside our realm. The Biblical perspective maintains that humans have always been made intelligent by their Creator and there was never a slow change from ape-like creatures to human. God said plainly that each life form was made after their kind (Gen. 1:21, 24, 25) and that “All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish” (1 Cor. 15:39). There is no Scripture that even remotely implies that species (or kinds) gradually transformed themselves into other or new species.

Alien theorists also jump to the conclusion that people in Biblical times were so ignorant that they mistook aliens for God or angels. There seems to be an element of pride permeating this kind of thought as if to say, “We know more now because we are smarter.” In truth, Adam and Eve had the best intellect in the history of mankind because God saw that everything He made on earth was good. I assume that Adam and Eve used 100% of the brain that God before sin’s curse took hold and had detrimental effects farther and deeper than we realize. Still, humans have shown throughout history to be very intelligent. Just because technology has increased, which God predicted would happen in the Last Days (Daniel 12:4), it does not mean that human IQs have increased. This is a huge difference that often gets lost in discussions today.

Here are examples of Scriptures that alien theorists use to support their claims:

Genesis 6:1-22 – When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. …

Genesis 6:4 – The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

Exodus 13:21 – And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.

Exodus 14:19-25 – Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. And there was the cloud and the darkness. And it lit up the night without one coming near the other all night. Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and the Lord drove the sea back by a strong east wind all night and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the people of Israel went into the midst of the sea on dry ground, the waters being a wall to them on their right hand and on their left. The Egyptians pursued and went in after them into the midst of the sea, all Pharaoh’s horses, his chariots, and his horsemen. …

Exodus 19:16-18 – On the morning of the third day there were thunders and lightnings and a thick cloud on the mountain and a very loud trumpet blast, so that all the people in the camp trembled. Then Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they took their stand at the foot of the mountain. Now Mount Sinai was wrapped in smoke because the Lord had descended on it in fire. The smoke of it went up like the smoke of a kiln, and the whole mountain trembled greatly.

Numbers 9:15-22 – On the day that the tabernacle was set up, the cloud covered the tabernacle, the tent of the testimony. And at evening it was over the tabernacle like the appearance of fire until morning. So it was always: the cloud covered it by day and the appearance of fire by night. And whenever the cloud lifted from over the tent, after that the people of Israel set out, and in the place where the cloud settled down, there the people of Israel camped. At the command of the Lord the people of Israel set out, and at the command of the Lord they camped. As long as the cloud rested over the tabernacle, they remained in camp. Even when the cloud continued over the tabernacle many days, the people of Israel kept the charge of the Lord and did not set out. …

Ezekiel 1:1-28 – In the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I was among the exiles by the Chebar canal, the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God. On the fifth day of the month (it was the fifth year of the exile of King Jehoiachin), the word of the Lord came to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the Chebar canal, and the hand of the Lord was upon him there. As I looked, behold, a stormy wind came out of the north, and a great cloud, with brightness around it, and fire flashing forth continually, and in the midst of the fire, as it were gleaming metal. And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, …

2 Samuel 22:8-16 – Then the earth reeled and rocked; the foundations of the heavens trembled and quaked, because he was angry. Smoke went up from his nostrils, and devouring fire from his mouth; glowing coals flamed forth from him. He bowed the heavens and came down; thick darkness was under his feet. He rode on a cherub and flew; he was seen on the wings of the wind. He made darkness around him his canopy, thick clouds, a gathering of water. …

2 Kings 2:11 – And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Zechariah 5:1-2 – Again I lifted my eyes and saw, and behold, a flying scroll! And he said to me, “What do you see?” I answered, “I see a flying scroll. Its length is twenty cubits, and its width ten cubits.”

Anytime God speaks to humans in the Biblical records, the content is good, never evil. So if God (and His angels) are nothing more than aliens with higher intelligence than humans (which I do not believe), then should we not obey the messages?! But this is never the theme promoted by these programs and movies. They will not comment on what God said to prophets. This is not important to these theorists. The spirit behind these people has a two-fold purpose:

to further undermine the authority of God’s Word to mankind and
to get people away from the belief in an all-powerful, all-loving, great sacrificing Creator, Someone who is worthy of our worship.

When these programs do present an alleged Christian perspective, it’s usually a liberal member of the clergy who is expressing his/her own interpretations. I have yet to see or read any of these programs include a formidable Biblical rebuttal to theories of ancient aliens. While most UFO sitings are easily explained away, some are not. The credible ones can be divided into these possible categories:

real craft, not from earth
real craft made by man in military secrecy
real craft made by man with assistance from extraterrestrials
real craft made by extraterrestrials
totally demonic activity or demonic illusion.

The case for the existence of at least some real UFO aircraft (as opposed to demonic illusions) is a strong one. They have been observed in recent times by credible people such as fighter pilots from several countries, astronauts, commercial airline pilots, military security personnel, and even a group of 62 school children in Africa. One example of an alleged flying saucer created by a human is that of famous inventor Nicola Tesla’s flying saucer. He apparently possessed scientific knowledge far in advance of his time. At times he would have instant revelations, but he also suffered from hallucinations and tormenting thoughts. Some other people have claimed to have instantaneous ability to read and write hieroglyphics, but also had been in contact with eight so-called “spirit guides.” Alien researcher Guy Malone has concluded that after working for 13 years on this issue, involvement always has led to “bad fruit and New Age cult thinking.”

Alleged alien abductions rarely if ever occur with strong Christians and there appears to be a frequent correlation between people who claim to have had abduction experiences with occult activities. If not them, it may be family members. However, this is not true in every case which does make me wonder what “in the world” is going on.

If demons are involved, they are totally evil, although they can appear to be good (2 Cor. 11:14-15). They are not aliens from other planets. They have been here on earth from the beginning (or maybe when they were cast out of heaven to earth when Jesus came – Luke 10:18 & Revelation 12:1-9). They will always get uncomfortable if a person speaks of Jesus Christ, and when they are commanded to go away in His name, they go (assuming the person is in right relationship with Jesus). Consider this Scripture concerning the Last Days, “Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time” (Revelation 12:12). Also this one, “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him” (Revelation 12:7-9).

creation.com/lifting-the-veil-ufo-phenomenon has information from a Christian who did research about former MUFON investigator turned Christian Joe Gordon. MUFON (The Mutual UFO Network) maintains that greys are trying to help us evolve.

One of Joe’s cases involved a new Christian named Bill D. During an alleged alien abduction he cried out “Jesus, help me!” and the encounter immediately stopped. When Joe contacted other MUFON investigators to see if they had had similar cases, they would only agree to talk to Joe if it was ‘off the record’ for fear of their careers. The truth was they all knew of similar accounts of abductions being stopped by people praying, singing hymns or calling on the name of Jesus. But because it was ‘religious in nature’ and not ‘scientific’, the evidence was being deliberately ignored and actually hidden. Joe’s CE4 group knew there must be more cases with which they could expose the deception. A newspaper, Florida Today, reported on CE4’s initial findings. The story went viral via the press and Internet, and suddenly, lots of people were contacting CE4 sharing similar testimonies.

Joe’s current ministry sees him counseling many experiencers with the aim of leading them to Christ. To date, he has worked with over 400 people who have had their ‘abduction’ episodes halted in the name of Christ (some of them don’t want to be identified). He has valuable insight into the whole UFO realm as he has seen it from two different sets of eyes—as an unbelieving new-ager, and now as a Bible-believing Christian. Like me, he found that the Bible has the answers to explain what is really happening. Moreover, the Bible also explains that non-Christians are unable to see the phenomenon for what it really is — “The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV).

Source = http://creation.com/ufos-and-aliensis-there-something-going-on

Given the number of unexplainable sightings every year, however, there should be a virtual queue of extraterrestrial craft entering our atmosphere. But this has never been detected. Although the majority of sightings are explainable as natural or man-made phenomena, or psychological delusions, some are not so easy to dismiss. Regardless of whatever one may think they are, the evidence suggests that they are already here, that is, emanating from the earth. Coupled with this is the circumstantial evidence of the contactees. These people from differing countries, backgrounds and careers seem to share a very common experience. It appears that the messages they are receiving from these so-called ‘aliens’ are aimed at rewriting the Bible’s history. For example, many of them claim that they are the creators of life on earth via the process of evolution, in contrast to God who created everything supernaturally in six days. Other common messages imply that Jesus Christ was an advanced extraterrestrial who will be returning in his spaceship.

I do not believe that advanced extraterrestrials are traveling millions of light years across the universe (if they could find us in the first place) just to recondition our spiritual beliefs.

Christians can see the obvious deception by Satan and his cohorts through the nature of these messages. Uncomfortable as we may be by the thought of increasing contact by the spiritual enemies of God, it is happening. The reason is that popular beliefs about evolution, extraterrestrial life and the possibility of interstellar space travel have made even the average person in the street susceptible to such deceptions.

For more of a variety of info, go to: http://creation.com/alien-life-ufo-questions-and-answers

For specific info on the name of Jesus stopping alien activity, go to: http://www.alienresistance.org/ufo-alien-deception/alienabductions-stop-in-the-name-jesus-christ/

The “Bottom Line” Outline:

I. Summary of Several Claims by Ancient Alien Theorists.

A. God is just a more evolved physical being.

B. Alien beings are called “greys” because so many people have similar descriptions of what they encountered.

C. Many people claim to have been abducted by aliens

Most had terrifying and sometimes painful experiences.
Some report that greys are good and are trying to help humanity.
Many became literally paralyzed so greys could “work” on them.

D. Ancient man has been periodically visited by aliens who gave them super advanced technology.

E. UFO connections and descriptions are in the Bible and ancient man did not know enough to describe them in a way that would fit our knowledge of aliens.

Ezekiel’s wheel, Noah’s Ark (was a space ships that saved humans and animals while earth flooded), pyramid construction, Ark of the Covenant (was a radio transmitter that not only communicated with Moses, but emitted deadly voltage to anyone who touched it), Mt.Sinai and Moses (UFO landed and an alien talked with him), the pillar of fire and cloud during the exodus, “the sons of god“ in Genesis 6, Elijah taken up in the sky by a chariot.
Scripture References used include: Ezek 1:1-28; Genesis 6:1-22; Exodus 13:21; 2 Kings 2:11; Numbers 9:15-22; Exodus 19:16-18; Exodus 14:19-25.

F. Etchings of alien beings from many years ago.

II. The Christian Response:

A. Claims by ufologists should not be quickly dismissed by Christians

There are too many “normal” people making claims
Descriptions have many similarities
Christians use the same reasons cited above to “prove” the resurrection so it is not fair or consistent for us to reject those reasons.
Ufologists’ claims are becoming widely spread in our culture today, so to ignore them or quickly brush them off, makes it appear like we are the “blind, ignorant, close-minded ones.”

B. The “Discernment Key” = The “Common Thread” – after all the facts and data are in, look for common themes, claims, or effects the experiences produce on people.

C. “Threads” I’ve perceived over the years

Many people who connect with “aliens” have been involved with the occult and/or New Age activities
Strong Christians are rarely involved.
When a strong Christian is involved, uttering the name of Jesus stops or interferes with alien activity.
According to former member of MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) and now Christian Joe Gordon, this kind of information has been censored by other ufologists.
Claims tend to make people doubt the Scriptures.
Makes Christianity appear like an out-dated, ignorant superstitious belief system.
Huge promotion of evolution (this spirit asserts that humans will eventually become gods; its root comes from Genesis 3:5 which was Satan‘s second lie to mankind).
So-called alien statements contradict the Bible
Masks the essential communication between Creator and mankind – ignores what this being or beings are saying – be humble, be kind, can’t be good enough to have life so there is a provision for us (Jesus as the sacrificial lamb). So even if Jesus was an “advanced grey” (which I do not believe), shouldn’t we still follow Him? No one else in history was better! Alien theorists will never say this.

D. The Ignored Message Needs to be Told – alien theorists are obsessed with convincing others that there is no supernatural, all-knowing, all-loving God that created us. It was these aliens who did this and if we learn their knowledge, we too will evolve into a superior race. This sounds like Satan’s lie to Eve – “You shall not die…in fact you’ll become like God.” Jesus described Satan as the father of all lies. I guess it comes down to whose words will we trust – Jesus’ or some ufologist?

For a more in depth Christian response, go to: http://creationists.org/ancient-alien-history-channel-rebuttal.html

Scriptures supporting the ‘demonic theory”:

2 Thessalonians 2:9 – The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders….

Ephesians 6:12 – For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

2 Corinthians 11:14 – And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

In summation, there is much reading and research to be studied about this issue. I confess that mine was not exhaustive, therefore there are probably many things left out in this essay. I tend to judge things by their fruit, and the fruit of Ufology is not good according to Biblical standards. If “greys” exist, I do not think they are friends of our Lord, and I reject the notion that Jesus was simply a powerful grey (and even if He is, He is still worth obeying and dying for because of what He did). Maybe for some people it all comes down to who or what they trust, a long lasting Bible which has turned millions of bad people into much better people by a wonderful, unchanging message to humankind, or some latest theory perpetuated by folks who really are not interested in what God has said to us. Jesus said it best (as usual), “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand” (John 10:27-28). Not even the greys? Not even the greys. My advice to you if you ever are confronted by one is to not fear and rebuke it in the name of Jesus Christ….and enjoy what follows.

Feedback:

J: Dave, not sure if you ever read the book by Chuck Missler- “Alien Encounters” was the name, I believe. Interesting book, to say the least. One part I remember is that all those who supposedly had close contact had messages that contradicted Scripture, lending more credence to the fact that, while they probably exist (since there IS a spiritual realm), they are undoubtedly demonic.

Dave: No, I have not read Missler’s book, but many of the Christian sources seem to be saying what he claims. The best Scripture to support this belief is 2 Corinthians 11:14-15, which says, “….for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.” Many reports have people saying that these so-called “greys” are good.

J: It was a bit unnerving reading it. I have a feeling we’d shrink into the fetal position if we saw the spiritual warfare going on around us!

Dave: Yeah, it’s probably God’s wisdom that prevents that from happening.

Were Our Founding Fathers Christians?

January 8, 2018 / dscheer / 0 Comments

We must be aware that people have written on this subject, unfortunately many were empowered by liberal or conservative biases. So I will try to keep this fair and simple. After much reading, I conclude that the Founding Fathers of our great nation were men who believed in a supreme being that should be obeyed and respected. Whether or not they were Christians may depend on the definition of “Christian.” Some people today assume one is a Christian if they believe in one God. This is not true. Deism, which several of the Founding Fathers subscribed to, does not uphold Jesus Christ as God in the flesh or the only Savior of the world.

For the record, the Founding Fathers of our nation were the men who signed the Declaration of Independence (56 in total), framed the Constitution, and signed the Articles of Confederation. For your convenience, I have given a brief description of the beliefs of some of the more prominent Founding Fathers:

John Adams – As a Unitarian (raised a Congregationalist), Adams rejected the doctrine of eternal punishment believing all would eventually enter heaven. (Many Unitarians reject the Trinity and most accept all religions as valid expressions of faith). However, he firmly believed that Christianity was the best religion and opposed Thomas Paine’s criticisms of Christianity.

Samuel Adams – In his Last Will and Testament he wrote: “Principally, and first of all, I resign my soul to the Almighty Being who gave it, and my body I commit to the dust, relying on the merits of Jesus Christ for the pardon of my sins.”

Benjamin Franklin – A deist, but thought Christ was the best example of religion, though he doubted His divinity. He saw the superiority in the morals and values of Christ’s teachings. He believed, however, that God’s truths could be found in nature and reason which definitely was a dangerous departure from holding the Bible as God’s infallible Word to mankind. He thought that portions of the Bible, such as anything miraculous were corrupt add-ons over history. The Age of Reason had affected many then and now. Intellect is good, it is made by God. But unless it is subjected to the Holy Spirit in deep humility, it will inevitably run amok and cause people to stumble. In my opinion, Franklin would be a staunch evolutionist if he lived in our generation.

James Madison – A deist who was fluent in Hebrew. Big believer in religious freedom.

Thomas Paine – A deist who typically exalted intellect over the Word of God.

Alexander Hamilton – Hamilton was shot and killed by Aaron Burr in a duel on July 12, 1804. His last dying words reportedly were: “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”

Patrick Henry – In his will he wrote, “This is all the inheritance I give to my dear family. The religion of Christ will give them one which will make them rich indeed.”

John Jay – In an April 23, 1811, letter to John Bristed, he described his annoyance when overhearing atheists putting down religion and later told one that he believed in Christ and was thankful that he did.

Thomas Jefferson – A deist who respected Christ’s teachings, but rejected His divinity, His miracles, and His resurrection. Jefferson wrote to John Adams, January 24, 1814 that the divine aspects of Christ were “the fabric of very inferior minds.”*

*Note the intellectual arrogance of deism, so be ever mindful of Matthew 11:25-26 – “I praise Thee O Father, Lord of Heaven and earth, that Thou didst hide these things from the wise and intelligent and didst reveal them unto babes. Yes, Father, for thus it was well-pleasing in Thy sight.” – Jesus Christ.

George Washington – In his Daily Sacrifice book at age 24, Washington prays: “Bless my family, kindred, friends and country, be our God & guide this day and for ever for his sake, who lay down in the grave and arose again for us, Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen…in and for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ offered upon the cross for me; for his sake, ease me of the burden of my sins, and give me grace that by the call of the Gospel I may rise from the slumber of sin into the newness of life. Washington also used the title “Supreme Architect” (a Freemasonry term of which he became a devout member). Most conservative Christians have problems with the Masons as a group.

In summary, it is often difficult to know exactly what is in a man’s heart in regard to religious beliefs, especially when they are not alive to answer our questions. I would say that most of the Fathers had a “good touch” of Christianity in them, but many may fail my test of being “Bible-believing Christians.“ It appears that deism (along with intellectual pride) influenced too many of them. The above note under Thomas Jefferson and deism is quite revealing. It is safe to say, however, that Biblical principles played a major role in the formation of our country. One glaring example is the “separation of powers” piece. Enough of the Fathers recognized that man is basically evil and that power tends to corrupt. No tyrant would ever rule the United States of America.

So was our country ever a “Christian nation?” I guess that depends on the definition of “Christian nation,” and I doubt whether even Christians could agree on that. I would say that it was formed from Christian principles. I certainly do not see any Islamic, Hindu, or Buddhist influence in its formation. I would also say that the majority of the people in those days were Christians. To say that it was or is a Christian nation, however, implies that the government would uphold and promote Christianity as the best or only right religion, and we know that it cannot and will not do that.

Extra Thought: For years I have been frustrated with the debate about the phrase, “One nation, under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance. The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by Francis Bellamy. The phrase “under God” was incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance June 14, 1954, by a Joint Resolution of Congress. Today, some people want that phrase omitted. Why not just change it to, “One nation, founded on the belief that God is over all, ….”? That should end the controversy as it should please both sides because it does not force someone to swear allegiance to something they do not believe in, and it is historically accurate thus pleasing believers.

Feedback:

GR: Obviously I would hold all these men in the utmost respect including Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin. With that said if I could speak to Jefferson, I would say, “Perhaps you need to look past your massive pride issues, open your mind and heart, and read the King James Bible regarding your Lord and Savior whom you choose to dismiss.“ I would also gently tell TJ that, “you are so full of yourself as to not see the Kingdom of God.”

Regarding the Pledge of Allegiance: To change the pledge to our flag in the name of diversity or political correctness is exactly what is wrong in our country today. That kind of thinking is why the gays and Muslims are changing the face of our nation and the US is becoming a toilet bowl of sin. Changing the pledge would have every Muslim, liberal, and atheist in the country dancing in the street. Next thing, they will want GOD off our money. Just my opinion.

Dave to GR: Our country had way too much sin BEFORE gays yelled for rights and BEFORE Islam started growing in our nation. Gays and Muslims are NOT the problem. Their rise is a symptom of the problem, however. If enough Americans would repent and change their ways, God would heal our land (2 Chronicles 7:14).

As far as the Pledge change suggestion is concerned, forcing a person to swear allegiance to our God is not the Holy Spirit’s way of doing things. Maybe you could re-think some of your statements.

GR: I thought you wanted my comments….if you don’t like my comments….that means you do not want my comments, and I stand by my comments. I do not have to rethink anything.

Dave to GR: Then we can agree to disagree on some topics. That does not mean I do not want your comments. When I get comments, it always challenges me to think through issues, which I need to do. So whether or not I agree with comments, they always help me. So your comments are always most welcomed.

GR: LOL I’m a pain in the butt.

Dave to GR: A lovable one though…..:-)

LM: Another great discussion, good food for thought. Washington, however, was a deist.

Dave to LM: Thanks for that feedback. You raise a good point about Washington. From what I’ve read, he can be difficult to nail down as far as his religious beliefs were concerned. Some resources assert he was a deist while others say he was not. I guess I would not put him into the same group as Paine or Jefferson, because I believe George was convinced of the resurrection of Jesus. He apparently had some trouble with some Protestant doctrines as time went by, but I do not know the specifics on that. I think it’s safe to say he had deist leanings, but I hesitate to say he was simply a deist. To me, that means he is not saved. I would assume this conclusion only because it is my understanding that deism rejects the resurrection, and I believe that is essential for salvation (Romans 10:9)….now maybe I’m wrong on this assumption regarding deist beliefs. Another assumption I have about deism is it does not believe in the providence or interventions of God with people and nations. Washington certainly did believe in those things. I’d appreciate any further info you can give me on all this. I’m learning as I go here :-).

C: I like your last point and agree (about the pledge). Also, I was not “flipped out” like many Christians were concerning Obama’s comment about our nation not being Christian. In all fairness to him (and believe me this is not an endorsement of him), I believe he had a good grasp of the intrinsic value of the morality (need for Deity) and the obligation of Government to not become an “England” forcing specific religious beliefs on everyone. We weren’t/aren’t a “Christian Nation.” “Godly-influenced” may be a better adjective as you have done beautifully in your expose’ here. Keep up the good work – these are great.

PT: Were our founding fathers Christian? I believe many were, would guess some were not, and probably some had only a form of Christianity (I’m really bad at judging who is really a Christian). But I do believe God was there at the beginning of our great nation and made sure the writing of our Constitution gave credit where credit was due,…”one nation under God.” Sadly, I went to the city library a few weeks ago and saw many pamphlets that addressed this very question–is America a Christian nation? All of the material basically made a disclaimer about God, even though readily admitting there are more Christians living in America than any other faith and most people believe in the God of the Judeo-Christian faith. So that alone should tell us something about us and our founding fathers.

Dave to PT: I too think that God influenced the Founding Fathers, although many of them had some wrong ideas about the God of the Bible. We must realize the cultural perspective of the 1700s. Many still had resentment against and fear of the Roman Catholic Church that dominated the world from 538 AD to 1798 AD. This ruthless, evil empire banned Bibles from the lay people and tortured and murdered millions of Christians over 1,260 years. Even non-Christian historians called those years “The Dark Ages.” True believers who held Scriptural truths, such as the Moravians, Waldensians, and Paulicians among others, were either killed for “heresy” or lived away from Rome’s reach. This, coupled with the rise of the Age of Reason in Europe, which was dominated by intellect rather than faith in God’s Word, and the tragic perception that Roman Catholicism was true Christianity, must have had an influence on the Founding Fathers’ thinking.

I think God’s purpose in forming the United States was to show other nations how much He wants to bless them as He blessed ours (The US grew to the #1 world power in a very short time). Also, He has used our nation to combat demonic powers working through evil empires on earth. What would life be like if the US did not fight in WWII? Can you imagine what a communist or fascist nation would do if they had all our power and resources?! Far from being a perfect country, I believe the US has shown wisdom and great restraint in world affairs. I believe this was because of so many believers in our nation and God’s influence upon us.

PM: Thanks Dave for giving a fair and balanced view on this topic. What I have found is when doing readings or research, it is difficult to ascertain a bias because the authors always offer a proof text, one that none of us is likely to have access to so we can determine accuracy. I read a nice book last year called “The Faiths of our Fathers” by Alf J. Mapp, Jr. Many of his proof texts ran contrary to what I’d read in Peter Marshall’s “The Light and the Glory.” So which is the more accurate account? Was Marshall guilty of leaving pertinent info out in order to follow his own Christian bias? I know from my own experience as a filmmaker there is no such thing as absolute objectivity. We all edit and shade things to get a point across. So I agree with your conclusions, and even your suggestion on the Pledge of Allegiance.

Dave to PM: “Fair and balanced” eh? You make me sound like a Fox News caster :-). You raise a good point about proof texts. Isn’t it ironic that we live in a generation that has access to more info than anyone in history, yet it’s so difficult to determine truth and accuracy.

A: I liked your final comment on how to change the pledge to satisfy everyone (if that’s possible) because we do need a reference to God in the pledge!

J: Thanks Dave for the briefs on some of the Founding Fathers. I found it amazing that the Constitution has stood the course of time in our country and would like to think it is because our Lord had something to do with the writing.

Dave to J: Yes, that Constitution was and still is a gem! It is tragic that some politicians and judges are reading things into it that were not intended by “The Fathers.” Oh those biases!

Scripture Thoughts

Author: dscheer (page 20 of 33)

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Were Our Founding Fathers Christians?

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