Category: Q & A (page 8 of 17)

Salvation After Death

Trish S – Question regarding Judgement Day: In thinking about all the folks past/present/&to come…when folks die, don’t they still have an opportunity to profess Jesus as our Lord/Savior right up to that final judging moment? (like Herod… If he comes to claim Jesus @ the final judgement, wouldn’t his fate be overturned from Hell to Heaven?

Dave to Trish S – Hey Trish, good question. I don’t see Scripture supporting the chance of salvation after death, especially considering Hebrews 9:27 which says, “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.” The only one that some people have interpreted as a chance for a second chance is in 1 Peter 3:18-20:

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”

However, I do not believe this means that departed souls from Noah’s time had Jesus literally in front of them preaching His Gospel and giving them a chance to get saved. I think it means that the “Spirit of Christ” (the Holy Spirit) was preaching through Noah while those folks were still alive. This continued perhaps for as long as 100 years since that is how long it took Noah to build that Ark. Furthermore, that Ark represented salvation (Jesus) for those people.

When people read “spirits in prison,” they conclude that Jesus descended into Hell or Hades and preached the Gospel there after He died and before He ascended into Heaven. But this is not what those verses are saying.

When one thinks about the chances people have to hear and accept the Gospel, heads start spinning. It is clear that not all have the same opportunities throughout history. The only thing I can say for sure is that the kind of judgment received does depend upon how much truth individuals were exposed to (Luke 10:12 & 14). To critics who raise this question, I always say that we do not know everything, but we do know that God is good, not ever fooled, just, and does not make mistakes. Finally, no matter where a person is born into in this life, they can always seek God and find Him if they are willing to obey Him (John 7:17).

But what happens to little babies or young children who die? When David’s son born from his illicit affair with Bathsheba died, David proclaimed that the boy would not return to him but that he (David) would go to him (after his death). This may reveal that little ones are spared the Lake of Fire, but the bottom line is that we do not know. The critic should be made aware that they have heard of Jesus and are therefore responsible to seek what He has said.

Feedback so far:

Nels F – (5/27/13) – Very interesting- learned a lot from this question and answer thanks!

Tom H – (5/27/13) – This was a tough one and I appreciate your willingness to tackle it. There is a resurgence of “universalism” ala the Rob Bell book “Love Wins,” which is saying that salvation is for all but it may take time after their death for them to finally decide to accept God’s salvation through Christ. I don’t believe this, but it is a big question among younger people (at least the generation after you and me) right now. Francis Chan has very caringly, effectively and biblically addressed this in his recent book entitled “Erasing Hell.” I suggest it as a must read. The point of ministering to spirits in prison, I think, is those who died awaiting the coming of the Holy One. I believe that Jesus’ death set them free as indicated in the gospel account that says that not only was the veil torn in two but that tombs opened up and dead rose and entered the Holy City. I don’t think this means they walked into the earthly Jerusalem, but likely the New Jerusalem.

GR – Excellent work.

Water Baptism

Sarah R – I was wondering if water baptisms started with John the Baptist’s ministry. Were there baptisms in the Old Testament?

Dave – Thanks for your question. Beyond preparing peoples’ hearts for true repentance (a desire to stop sinful behaviors, not just feel sorry about them), John the Baptist was also proclaiming a prerequisite to receiving the Messiah for salvation. He was also fulfilling OT prophecy concerning the coming of the Savior in the “spirit of Elijah” as Malachi 3:1 and 4:5 reveals. Jesus later confirmed that those Scriptures referred to the Baptist (Matt.11:14).

In the Old Testament period, baptism was a ritual of conversion to Judaism. Pagans would become proselytes through this ritual by self-baptizing to become part of the Jewish people. So it was an identification with the people of God.

Water is the element naturally used for cleansing the body and its symbolical use entered into almost every cult, and into none more completely than the Jewish faith, whose ceremonial washings were proverbial.

The Dead Sea Scrolls also depict the baptism ritual as something practiced by much of Jewry at that time. To this day Jews practice baptism for both male and female converts who immerse themselves in a ritual bath.

Long before the Jews practiced baptism, the concept or spirit behind Christian baptism is found in the Old Testament. For instance, the passing of Israel through the Red Sea on the final Day of Unleavened Bread, was likened to a baptism by Paul (1 Cor 10:1-2). And further baptismal and resurrection typology may be found in the crossing of the Jordan River which was a type of entering the Kingdom of God followed by pulling down the strongholds of the enemy (Joshua 3:15-17; 2 Cor 10:4). At the Tabernacle in the wilderness, the Levites were cleansed via sprinkling of water – a type of baptism to purify them in preparation in service to God and man (Num 8:6-7,11,21). Further, the Levites had to be bathed or washed clean in water in Ex 29:4 which is one of the ceremonial washings referred to in Heb. 6:2.

Were sins forgiven before Jesus and The Baptist? I think so. If people (Jews or Gentiles) believed in Yahweh (the God of the Jews), believed that the shedding of innocent blood was necessary for forgiveness, and believed in the coming of a Messiah, people could have eternal life. If they trusted in their own goodness or ignored those things listed, then they would not have life on Judgment Day. Habakkuk, an Old Testament prophet, proclaimed that a righteous person shall live by their faith (Hab.2:4). Bear in mind, however, that animal sacrifices were a mere, temporary cover for sins, whereas Jesus’ Blood did away with them forever.

Feedback:

Jenn K – There is also the analogy of Noah used by Apostle Peter in I Peter 3:20-21.

Alona R – I never thought of the passing through the Red Sea on the final Day of Unleavened Bread being likened to a baptism by Paul. Certainly there were ceremonial washings for various reasons, i.e. the lepers who were healed and had to go through washings and going to the temple to be inspected before being declared clean again. As you mentioned too the Levites seemed to be cleaner than most because of their ceremonial washings. In the day most people used oils and perfumes to cover their bodily odors rather than bathe as we do now, but there are still Asians and Europeans who do not use water as much as we do. I guess we all relate to water as a cleaning agent for exterior soil, but fail to connect to water as a daily cleansing agent for our sin.

Papacy

Joan A – A while back during an on-line dialogue with a friend, you gave an excellent explanation how belief in the papacy and worshiping Mary and saints ever came about. Unfortunately I failed to keep those messages. I wished I had. If it wouldn’t be too much trouble would you please sent them again. I have several Catholic friends (and former Catholics) who I think might be interested. Thanks so much.

Dave – Hey Joan. I wouldn’t say to a Catholic that they worship Mary, because they are convinced that they don’t (although this can be debated). They do pray to her because they think she is God’s Mother and has ascended to Heaven without dying. They believe this because they believe Mary was sinless and was conceived by the Holy Spirit in her mom’s womb thus avoiding Adam’s “original sin” (Immaculate Conception). So they feel she has influence with Him. What they do not realize is that this is manipulation (not that it actually works, but if it did, then it would still be a sin to manipulate God like that). The Bible is clear that Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and man, not Mary (1 Timothy 2:5). This applies to the saints as well. They are not to be prayed to or asked for favors. Jesus worked very hard and suffered much in order to be that One Mediator. Let us not diminish that. The Bible cannot be clearer on this issue. All sinners can approach God Himself directly through the Blood of Jesus having faith in Jesus.

At one point, Jesus did mention one human being that was the greatest person ever born to a woman. Surprisingly it was not Moses or Abraham, and, for Catholic ears, it wasn’t Mary. It was John the Baptist. He went on to reveal that even the least citizen in heaven is greater than John. Wow! I cannot imagine ever being greater that John was in his time of his earthly body, but I will according to Jesus. But the point I am making is that Mary was not picked by Jesus as being the greatest. There are other times in Scripture when Jesus separated Himself from Mary as well.

Actually the Catholic priesthood rejects the theme of the Book of Hebrews. Its message was telling Jews that the old system of priests and Temple animal sacrifice is obsolete. The veil in the Temple separated sinful man from a Holy God, but split from top to bottom when Jesus died. This event was a loud statement regarding the future role of any priest-type positions. They simply are not needed. In fact, relying upon a priest is insulting to Jesus considering all He went through to become our High Priest. This is why Protestant churches, including non-denominational churches, never have priests. In Ephesians 4:11-12 the New Covenant reveals that churches are to have pastors, teachers, evangelists, apostles (those who start churches), and prophets (those who speak God’s word).

In brief summation, over the years the Roman Catholic Church has created four tenets that all replace Jesus Christ. There are two meanings for the word “anti”: 1) against, and 2) in place of. Their doctrines about Popes, priests, Mary, and saints have all served to replace the real Jesus. It’s kind of rebuilt Judaism where ritual and human effort to gain forgiveness (with no assurance of this) is the norm. This is why so many Catholic people I’ve known battle with deep-rooted guilt – they’ve never met the real Jesus yet. An anti-Christ system is a false church. It is not the one that Jesus started. I know this is very difficult for some people to embrace, but I must always say, “If you can show me by the Scriptures, I will recant what I’ve said about Catholicism.” John Huss said these same words just before the Catholic Church burned him at the stake and desecrated his remains shortly after in 1415 AD.

… the history of “Mary worship” or the Catholic belief about saints… was rooted in paganism before the Catholic Church emerged. “Who is the Queen of Heaven?” are good key words to use with a Google search.
Try http://www.gotquestions.org/Queen-of-Heaven.html.

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