Tag: Jesus (page 13 of 15)

Fig Tree

Joan: I have a question regarding Luke 13:6-9 – the parable of the fig tree. It’s pretty clear to me that this is speaking about “one more chance” but I don’t understand the significance of “digging around it” and “fertilizing it.” What do you think that means? The other references to unfruitful fig trees seem to refer to looking good on the surface – having a form of godliness – and insincere repentance and worship. They also don’t get a second chance but are cut down.

Dave: Just prior to Luke 13:6, Jesus talked about repentance. I think the fig tree represents Israel as a non repentant nation and God had made several previous attempts throughout their history via the prophets to get them to follow His lead, but they wouldn’t. The Jewish nation constantly broke their covenant with God by their wayward attitudes and actions. “Digging around and fertilizing” represents God’s ultimate, last-ditch effort to bring His Old Covenant people to Him by way of His personal appearance on earth (see the parable of the tenant farmers in Matthew 21:33-42). Since the Jewish nation as a whole (not individual Jews) rejected their God in Christ Jesus, Israel and the Old Covenant Temple would be “cut down” (destroyed). Jesus warned of this destruction in Luke 23:28-31 and Matthew 24:2, 15-22. The Kingdom of God was to be taken from Israel and given to Gentiles (Matthew 21:42-45). It is quite remarkable to note that since the Temple’s destruction, the Jews have never re-instituted animal sacrifice. I believe this underscores what God has said and done regarding physical Israel. Christ is the perfect sacrifice therefore no more animals should be killed. The Book of Hebrews reveals more details about this issue.

By the way, I do not believe that this Kingdom transfer was a “Plan B” by God as some Christian teachers claim. The Old Testament prophets described it several times, although they themselves were probably unsure about what it all meant. I believe there has always been a Plan A from the beginning. Furthermore, I think that this Plan would save as many souls as would be possible considering the dire circumstances of a sinful, rebellious world. I am blessed to know that you are reading His Word!

Joan: This is great. However, whenever I read something like this I’m always trying to see how it applies to our lives today. I know of so many people (including me) who have children or family members who claim to be believers (look good on the outside) but their lives tell another story. I’ve seen the Lord spare one in particular time after time and wonder if there’s a message here about “digging around” and “fertilizing” that God is showing as a way to reach them before it’s too late. Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but I’m such a practical person that it just comes naturally. Thanks for being such a good sport.

Dave: I hear what you are saying, especially from a parental viewpoint. The fact is that it is next to impossible for us to discern exactly how God is dealing with someone else. The Holy Spirit does supply us with words of wisdom, words of knowledge, and a distinguishing of spirits, but that does not make us God and rarely does one person have all of these. So we are called to believe, seek those gifts, stay strong in Him, and to trust in His ways, which are higher than our ways.

Joan: You’re absolutely right. I’m so grateful The Holy Spirit intercedes on our behalf. Rom. 8: 26,27. Thanks for all your help. Have a blessed day.

Feedback:

Alona R (6/19/13): Interesting discussion – thank you Joan for asking the question.  We had a similar discussion in Community Bible Study (CBS) when we studied Luke.

Q & A: Is Suicide Always Wrong?

Dave – Hebrews 9:27 states, “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.” So can I argue that if I killed myself today, that this was my appointed time? I say no because I can argue that I preempted God’s plan for my life which makes my action wrong. To be clear here, I am not talking about someone jumping on a live grenade to save others. I am talking about the willful act of ending one’s soul-life before “its time.” I am also not addressing the controversy of euthanasia for a sufferer either. This is a separate issue for me. Therefore, I contend that suicide in the context that I’ve laid out here is always wrong.

The next question is can a Christian who commits suicide still have eternal life? Many believers quote 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 for this issue, “Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.” This certainly sounds like the person is in deep trouble on Judgment Day. The Lake of Fire (Hell) does destroy both body and soul according to Jesus (Matthew 10:28). To be honest, however, I am having trouble making a blanket judgment for all Christian suicide cases. Saul/Paul, however, did kill some Christians and yet was forgiven and has eternal life. I look forward to your thoughts. I’ll deal with euthanasia next time.

Feedback:

Gary R – Biblically speaking, suicide is wrong as 1 COR 3:16-17 tells us. Speaking from the human standpoint, Bible aside if that’s possible, from the moment of birth us humans work so hard to LIVE! It’s inconceivable to me one could end your own life, obviously in the depths of despair, but God’s Word, indeed has all the answers. I think suicide is always wrong.

Nick C – When you look at the Scriptures, there are many people who seemed to be plagued with suffering and pain. Job is the most notable. He said, “May the day of my birth perish” (Job 3:3, 11). Samson killed himself along with the Philistines. King Saul fell on his own sword. Judas committed suicide. The Bible doesn’t soft pedal those deaths. The Bible says it’s the Lord who gives and takes away (1 Sam. 2:6).

Pat T – I’ve had a relative who was schizophrenic who committed suicide and even had an evangelical pastor (business exec.) who suffered terribly from deep depression who took his own life. Both were confessing Christians. Even my wife who was sexually abused as a child for years by a family member had tried to take her life (never succeeded, thank God). And though I believe suicide is sin and we don’t have the right to take our own life, I too believe God has to make the final judgment on their destiny, especially those who are not in their right mind. Even King Saul fell on his own sword to end his life and other prominent figures in Scripture had wished for death. But God also warns us in Revelation that the cowardly do not enter heaven, which I believe to include those who bow out of life because life has been tough. Suicide is not of God or His way to die.

It is not the unforgivable sin as Jesus described in Matt. 12:31. All sins, past present and future where forgiven and paid for on the cross. All sins includes taking your own life. The problem is some people say the suicide victim never confessed their suicide to be forgiven. But, then where is grace? Unbelief is the only sin that keeps you from God’s grace. If salvation depended upon my ability to confess all my sins, I’d be hopelessly lost because who can remember them all? We all sin in ways we are not aware of. What happens to the guy that dies in a car wreck instantly who just stole a candy bar or lied or looked at porn or swore before he could confess his sin?

I believe suicide victims who are children of God are not sent to hell. They still are redeemed into heaven. There is nowhere in the Bible God says a suicide victim goes to hell.

You have to come to grips with Jesus saying nothing can snatch his children from his hand, nothing separates his children from his love, we are adopted so can we be unadopted? We are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Can we be unsealed?

Jesus can and does heal those struggling with suicidal thoughts.

Those are my initial thoughts. I had a Christian friend commit suicide many years ago after he found his Christian wife in his bed with another man. The pain was too much to bear. He loved Jesus. I believe he is in heaven.

I believe that verse in 1 Cor. 3 is talking about defiling the church which is God’s temple, not our bodies.

Cindi L – Dave, well said. Suicide is one of the toughest issues for me mainly because of confronting the very issue of eternal life and being fairly close to individuals who struggle their whole lives with depression. What makes it tough is it’s the last act someone does, which makes us question the “typical” repentance aspect. I find myself not offering definites to anyone on the subject because I know our Loving God knows way more than us, the beginning, and the end and I leave it in His hands. I have witnessed some things that bother me when Christians on occasion “claim with certainty” that the person “went to heaven.” I think is a dangerous message to endorse as it may lead others who struggle to choose suicide because it offers them a “faster way out” to what they think is a definite “better world or place.” We must be cautious and though our hearts go out to all those families and friends that go through this horrible tragedy (it is so tough on those left in its wake), I usually choose to say my Hope would be that they are in heaven and with certainty we can TOTALLY TRUST God in this situation. As usual, it’s best left in God’s Hand, and defer our opinions to His.

Chris L – All really interesting thoughts… and good initial analysis from you. I think in some way, like mom said, it’s dangerous to ever speculate on anyone’s eternal destiny and I think Jesus being ‘the Door’ is basically Jesus warning that He – not man – decides who comes in and out. Sometimes I think in our attempt to support that claim (that Jesus is the Door) we can run the risk of actually defeating the whole purpose. The point is that He decides, basically warning us not to do so! And who else would we want to make that call? Especially with these questions (suicide, whether you are sealed, whether you haven’t heard the name ‘Jesus’, whether you are 9 years old, etc.)…you definitely don’t want me making those calls – God knows my own judgments would only flip back on me the moment I make them!

But at the same time, we can certainly affirm that God doesn’t like suicide or the mental illnesses that
leads to it or any suffering at all. It would therefore be our to job to ask God how we fight against that in
our lives and the lives of others. Whether that includes telling people they may not go to heaven if they
do, I’m not sure. I’m not sure that would be the best approach, but if it convinces people not to commit
suicide, then great. Good stuff

Cindi L – This was great feedback to read. The Scriptural suicides that were mentioned would be interesting to hear commentaries on from your group. For example, I would question whether Saul or Judas were destined for heaven in contrast with Samson’s decision. Samson’s seems a lot more like your first analogy of someone diving on a bomb to save more lives act. It was interesting to me that these were all lumped together.

Dave – Clearly, there is a difference between Samson’s death and Judas’. Saul’s soul is a mystery to me, not so much how he died (he was mortally wounded so he would have died without falling onto his sword) but that he was so backslidden.

Q & A: What was the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden?

Tim L. – What was the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden? What might have happened if Adam and Eve had opted to eat from the Tree of Life instead of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Or, eaten from the Tree of Life first and then consumed the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Dave – Great questions, Tim. Thanks for sending them. First, let me say that I think that the meaning behind those two trees runs deep, and we may never understand their fullness until we pass from this realm.

My pastor, Mark DuPre, likes how the Jamieson, Fausett and Brown commentary describes the Tree of Life: “…so called from its symbolic character as a sign and seal of immortal life. Its prominent position where it must have been an object of daily observation and interest, was admirably fitted to keep man habitually in mind of God and futurity.” (Bible Study Tools)

I think the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden was Jesus Christ Himself perhaps in some different form. It represents faith and grace. I believe contained within that Tree was freedom, grace, eternal life, goodness of God, and the idea that God is merciful, forgiving, and not judgmental. If Adam and Eve just ate from this Tree, sin would have never entered their souls and they would have continued to live forever in peace with no aging-to-death process. Notice that God did not offer a formal option to them. In other words, He did not say, “There are two Trees here. One is life the other is death, take your pick.” Instead, He commanded them not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. In this way, disobedience was quickly established.

Pastor Mark does not believe that the Tree of Life was Jesus Christ in a different form. He does agree that it represents faith and grace, but in his mind, it is mostly eternal life. He further believes it stood for many things, as I have said, but that it mainly stood as a promise of eternal life and the call to be like God (in the right way, like Jesus Christ).

We’ll obviously never know what WOULD have happened had Adam and Eve been obedient. I’ve read that some folks believe ultimately God would have led them to eat of the tree of life. But we’ll never know until heaven.

In the long run (God’s Plan A), I think God allowed sin to enter humans for the greatest cause possible. Namely, to eradicate sin forever. When Lucifer’s pride caused his fall (and many angels with him), God never wanted this to be possible again throughout eternity. He could have made more angels, but because they can see God, it would not take any faith to redeem them if they fell like Lucifer and his cohorts. Hence, He designed a life form that was lower than angels that could and would separate themselves from God so He could enter the sin-filled realm Himself and annihilate it. Scripture does say that His love is perfected in us (1 John 4:12-19). I think this means that God not only declared He loved us but He demonstrated it via the Cross (Romans 5:8). Furthermore, His love expanded to the nth degree because we were unlovely and not even seeking Him. Not only did God accomplish this great feat, but at the same time He also created a Bride for Himself. Not bad, eh?

Pastor Mark is not sure he can agree with my speculation at this point because he does not see solid Biblical evidence about the motivations of God on this issue. He thinks the love of His people and the creation of a Bride are more clearly painted in Scripture than any “conquering sin-plan.” He also thinks that I could be right, but would need to see something more solid Biblically to feel that someone could describe God’s motivations. “God so loved the world…” is probably the most sublime expression he can find which is a good point. Mark further believes that God “absorbed” and judged sin in the person of His Son and thinks the love motivation comes first. Then comes the specific judgment tactics against sin. He concludes that God could have chosen any way He wanted to judge and to destroy the effects of sin forever. He happened to choose a way that demonstrated a love that we can barely comprehend.

If Adam first ate from the good tree and then later the bad one, what would have happened? The horrors that this bad tree leads to are bondage, The Law which cannot be satisfied, death, making us view God only as being judgmental and condemning. I think the same thing that happened in Genesis would happen here, unless the good tree somehow would make him immune to choosing disobedience for eternity?

Pastor DuPre has often wondered if man would have been “locked-in” to choosing obedience if he’d eaten of the tree of life first. He thinks many Bible commentators think that, but no one knows what God’s criteria would have been for that, and no one knows what the results would have been.

Another question we can ask is, “What would have happened if Adam ate from the Tree of Life after eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?” Once Adam sinned, God put an angelic guard and a “flaming sword which turned in every direction” to guard the way to the Tree of Life. So God did not allow this to happen, and I think this “spiritual guard” continues to this day preventing anyone from eating from it. But why? Perhaps this prevents anyone from gaining eternal life apart from the Messiah’s cross? In addition, to live forever in a sinful state is not good when eternal perfect life is possible.

In conclusion, I would say that your questions are difficult because the Bible does not give us much insight to determine sound doctrines. The above answers are, of course, speculations by Pastor Mark and myself, but I hope they provide some insights or good follow-up questions, however.


Feedback:

Nels F. – Very interesting I never thought about these things before!

Cindi L. – Interesting!

Tim L. (question sender) – Great discussion – one of those topics that is fun to ponder (deeply), but of course we will never know the answers for sure until heaven. I too think of Jesus when I read about the Tree of Life – drink this water and never thirst again (John 4:13).

It does seem God provided both options for man to pick from – eternal life without sin or knowledge – with the baggage of sin. Probably knew temptation would cause a bad pick, but man was given both options.

And you highlight a good point – after the fall – the tree of life was no longer an option unless you want to play laser tag with an angel. I suppose if man had consumed from the tree of knowledge and then the tree of life – if man wouldn’t have just been – the fallen angels part II. God was going for a free-will answer to disobedience. I wonder if perhaps there had been another God and Satan debate (as with Job) with Satan assuring that man would make bad choices and never freely opt to reconcile with God.

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