Tag: Salvation (page 2 of 2)

Ecumenism

“Ecumenism” refers only to Christian churches/faiths coming together as one. It does not mean “interfaith” which unites different religions. It also does not refer to non-denominationalism which simply represents Christian churches with no ties to protestant denominations that tend to include man-made traditions birthed in history. Non-denominational churches tend to be autonomous therefore have no church hierarchy, i.e., a head church that determines all doctrine. I think this is the best model. Here I find more love for Jesus and others, and more excellent Bible teachings. I’ve also met some great pastors that never attended seminary or Christian college. God anoints who He wants.

The Ecumenical Movement involves organized churches such as Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and Protestant. You won’t find non- denominational churches involved. They view it as compromise on key doctrines.

On the surface uniting all the Christian faiths together as one seems good. I’m sure Satan has used the “divide and conquer” rule throughout history to lessen impact. The danger of uniting, however, is loss of imperative Truth.

In my view, the essential truths are the identity of Jesus Christ and God’s salvation plan. Therefore, several groups who reject the deity of Christ and adhere to good works and/or rites and rituals to earn salvation must be eliminated from a united group wrought by God. From what I’ve seen over the years among the “ecumenical groups” is not much power of spirit (2 Timothy 3:5), especially in the area of introducing Jesus Christ to people who do not know who He is. Isn’t that what Satan wants? It seems to me that the most repressive power Satan and demons exert on this planet is against the true identity of Jesus and how a human soul gets saved.

United religious groups not formed by the Holy Spirit usually are folks who think they are good people doing good things for God. It may be a difficult concept to grasp but when fallen humans strive in their own “goodness” to please God, He looks at those works as “filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6). One problem fallen humans have is the lack of perception of true Holiness which only God has and how far we have fallen from that state. At very best, we see truth dimly (1 Corinthians 13:12).

Now for Christian churches that have the essential tenets of the faith in tact, there should be more unity, especially among the non-denominational churches. However, they allow other doctrines such as how to interpret End-time prophecy, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and how to worship God “properly,” prideful pastors who fear losing people, and social/political issues to get in the way of unity. This is tragic indeed. Perhaps only a major catastrophe would bring us all together as one, but then later, we would most likely slide back into our comfort zones.

Unity that is not wrought by God is evil as was the case with the Tower of Babel scene. The concept of “unity” (the attempt at religious unity) erodes important truths and will not be the answer to the world’s problems. I look at this world as a sinking ship, and I’m trying to get as many people as I can into the lifeboat via the Gospel. I think people within the ecumenical movement are not as alive in Christ as they could be and therefore can more easily fit together with others with the same problem.

Simply stated, I perceive there exists a true church and a false church in this world. The true one loves Jesus, tells others about Him, reads the Bible as a lifeline to God, loves people, and knows they cannot earn their way to heaven, it’s all God’s mercy and grace given via Jesus Christ. The false church basks in good works, seldom gets into the Bible, doubts several portions of the Bible, its people seldom mention the name of Jesus in social discourse, pride themselves in being good people, lack God’s love for lost souls, adhere to man-made traditions or rituals as though they have some sort of cleansing-of-the-soul power, have other priorities (idols) in this life.

By reading Jesus’ messages to the seven churches in Turkey near the beginning of the Book of Revelation, we get a good idea about what’s wrong and right with churches today.

Can a Christian Lose Salvation?

Solid Christians are on both sides of this issue. Historically, John Calvin (1509-1564), believed that you cannot lose it. Jacobus Arminius (1560-1609) disagreed and believed that one can lose salvation. My opinion? Not sure, but if we can lose it, it must be rare because God does not let go of His kids easily (if at all). The upside of believing in eternal security is that blessed assurance (peace of mind). The downside is there may be a greater tendency to sin and/or to develop a lack of motivation to serve Jesus. The upside in believing in conditional salvation is developing an attitude of being careful how one lives, while the downside is perhaps drawing wrong conclusions about individual souls and giving up on them.

Scriptures that lead one to believe in eternal security:

Ephesians 1:13-14: “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.”

John 10:28-29: “And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.”

Others include: 2 Corinthians 5:5; John 6:37,39; Romans 8:28-29; 2 Timothy 2:19.

Scriptures that lead one to believe salvation can be lost:

Hebrews 6:4-6: “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.”

Hebrews 10:26: “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins….”*

Others include: Matthew 5:13; John 15:6; 2 Peter 2:20-22; Matthew 7:21-22; Matthew 12:31-32; 2 Peter 1:10.

*Comment on Heb. 10:26: Since we believers know the truth, we usually know full well what the sin is that we are about to commit. I know for a fact that every believer has sinned willingly. We knew before we did it that is was wrong, yet we still wanted to do it and we did it. This is sinning willfully. Therefore, taking Hebrews 10:6 at face value, all Christians have lost salvation, but we know that this is not true. So, we must look at this verse with a different perspective. Perhaps it simply means if we hear the truth and continue to reject it, there is no covering for the person’s sins. Or, that it refers to people who have heard the Truth but refused to admit that something is sinful, and they continue to do it without any remorse, regret, or regard for God and what He says. A third possibility is that a Christian can expect nothing but God’s judgment for that sin, since they haven’t brought it to the cross, in fact, have RESISTED the cross.

What about believers repeating the same sins? I think Paul covered this well in Romans 7:14-8:1.

In Summary: Those who believe the Bible teaches “once saved always saved” can assert that anyone who falls away was never saved to begin with. This, of course is something that can never be proved, but that does not eliminate it from the possibility that it is true. The important point that people may miss in this debate is that if/when a believer sins repeatedly or once in a while, that if they are repentant and still desire to follow Jesus, then they must be in good standing with God since it is He that GRANTS repentance (Romans 2:4, 2 Cor. 7:9, 2 Tim. 2:25). If a person has truly lost salvation, their lifestyle would most likely reflect that. The grace and mercy and longsuffering patience of God goes longer and deeper than most fallen humans think. Therefore, I think it would be a bit presumptuous to conclude that a certain believer has crossed some line with God and now has lost salvation. Though I have not answered this difficult question, perhaps the emphasis should be on not judging others and being content that as long as we care about being in His will, that we are in still the palm of His hand.

Another question I have is “Just what difference does knowing the answer to this question really make?” No matter which one is true, all believers need to love Him, tell others about Him, and live righteously. Anyone can do these things without knowing the truth about this issue. Furthermore, anyone from any viewpoint should and can also do these things. This issue seems to me to be more of a divisive issue among believers rather than something that inspires us to do right. If we know someone who claims to be a believer and is not living properly, all we can do is pray and help them change using Biblical guidelines. We will not know for a fact whether or not they have lost salvation, so whether we are a Calvinist or an Arminian, we should react the same…so what real difference do these doctrines make??


Feedback:

Anon #1: My husband and I have always disagreed about this issue–he believes in eternal security, I believe we have free will and can choose to turn our backs on God and throw His gift back in His face. Admittedly, it only matters if you fall away–which our daughter has now done. She ‘believes’ there is no God at all, and the times in her youth when she heard from Him were all in her head/psychological wishful thinking. So I am in agony wondering what will happen if anything happens to her before she repents and returns. It may be less emotionally painful to believe eternally secure, but I would have to KNOW, and I don’t. Honestly, it feels like she died and this nice young woman who I don’t really know well took her place. I still grieve her loss. It’s painful. God has given me some verses in Jeremiah that lead me to believe she will return, and I cling to them when I start to worry too much, but it’s not easy. My husband doesn’t see it quite the same, though I think he would agree that this “new daughter” is not our old one. A book that I am copying for our pastor at work (I’m the church secretary) teaches you can lose it, and I am a sobbing wreck by the time I finish a paragraph, as it describes our daughter to a T. Some things I wish we could really know before we die…

Dave: I know exactly what you are experiencing. But one thing I’ve had the Lord tell me recently is that Christian authors, though most mean well, are NOT the Word of God. The Word of God is not clear on this topic. Therefore, I conclude that we cannot know, and therefore our role is to trust Him. How can any human judge correctly that another human has just stepped over that invisible line (if it exists for believers) where God will not take them back? With all due respect to your pastor, do not let a book written by a fallible human plummet your faith in God’s mercy and faithfulness. I am convinced that His mercy goes farther and deeper than any human thinks.

Over the 44 years of knowing Christ, I have heard hundreds of testimonies of people falling completely away from the faith only to return later (and they went FAR away). In the meantime, praying and fasting for important outcomes always helps. If your faith wavers on this situation, just simply be honest with our Abba Father and tell Him about that, and ask Him to help you trust and believe. This is every believer’s battle. God has blessed you with a fantastic mother’s heart, so be encouraged in Him.


Anon #2: Whether or not a Christian can lose his salvation hits home at a very personal level regarding my wife’s sister whom you’ve known for years. She and her son moved from the Rochester area a few years ago and began attending my church. They were both baptized, became members and were active in the church. The son graduated from one of the finest Christian schools and began to attend a Christian college. Then he announced to the family he was gay and had been living a secret lifestyle for years. As you can imagine this was a shock to everyone and what happened later became even worse. After one of our pastors counseled his mom (our church regularly counsels gender confused teens), she left the church, walked out of her executive job, moved to another city and completely supports her son’s gay lifestyle. Worse, most of her family supports her and her son, and believe homosexuality is something he was born with and consider him still a Christian.

I had no other choice but to lovingly confront the family about the sin of homosexuality assuring them God loved him just as much as He loves me and wants the best for everyone, but also made it clear in Scripture that homosexuality is a sin and separates one from God just as any other sexual sin like adultery and sleeping around. I gave the best counsel I could drawing from a Christian book (Sex and the iWorld-Khune) regarding homosexuality. Since then the family has made distance from me and his mom refuses any more contact.

I have never seen so much turmoil in a family, but what bothered me the most was the compromise and abandonment of the Christian faith by those who call themselves Christian. Perhaps what I have written here can also lead to some more questions in your study. Any Biblical counsel would be most appreciated at this end.

Dave: Wow, sad news…but not beyond the reach of our heavenly Father. You did well to share truth in love with your wife’s sister. The best Christian ministry for gays is L.I.F.E. Ministry in NYC. You can find it on-line. I encourage you to contact them and they can help. It is run by ex-gay Joanne Highly who married ex-gay Ron Highly many years ago. Ron has died, but Joanne is still doing a great job at the helm. Their insights into homosexuality such as its causes and effects go beyond all other Christian info I’ve ever seen. LIFE = Living In Freedom Eternally.

That sudden abandonment of the “Christian faith” stems from them never bonding to God’s Word, and, perhaps, God is using this controversy to expose this (and hopefully repair it). At present, I cannot pronounce any of these people as “non-Christians” or ones who have lost salvation. They are in danger, however.

I can understand the mom’s reaction (note to readers: I know her personally). After experiencing a horrible dad (years of sexual abuse), then losing a husband to divorce, she seemed to pour all of her love into her son. Her son was her light and joy in her rough life. It was her and him against this cruel world and they survived. Her son probably gave her a sense of purpose and meaning to her life. Then to see him being “attacked and condemned” (from her perspective), she predictably ran to his defense and away from Christians. She needs counsel to unravel her past. At this point, I am not sure what role you can play other than praying and seeking help from LIFE since she won’t talk with you.

I reject any notion that someone is born gay. The media slants reports to convince people that science has proven this. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many gay men have had poor father figures in their life – neglect, abuse, lack of closeness. I’m not saying this is THE cause, but it probably contributes to it from the environmental category of thought (as opposed to the genetic theory). I would guess that the son was not close with his dad, and that his mom doted much on him. It is reasonable to assume that he has had a longing in his heart to be close to a male figure. All this, of course is speculation by me, a non-expert in this field. And I do not mean to blame the mom at all. Her love toward her son is most understandable, even commendable. Both of them may need special prayer to rid themselves of demonic oppressions – in God’s timing, however. Hope this will help in a most difficult and sad situation. I will pray as well.

Anon #2: Thanks for your good counsel Dave, I will visit the sites you mentioned. I believe you are right about her going through so much and in her relationship with her son. I do keep them in prayer and hope someday to make things right between us. Sometimes I wish I had not been so direct with her, but she was so fixed on his gay lifestyle as being OK she had really influenced the family to question their beliefs and side with her. God will have to take hold of this one for sure to make a difference.


Linda P (10/21/13) – I was introduced to Christ by Dave Scheer as a a sophomore in high school. I believed. I was the seed that fell on the rock. I grew quickly, then withered. It took me 40 years of being lost in the desert before I finally looked up again. I was baptized in July 2010. I am a disciple, a work in progress. I am learning, and praying, and living and sharing my faith. I sure hope that those of us that haven fallen away and come home aren’t lost to the Kingdom. I believe we are not. God used all the bad boys and girls to prove a point, as far as I’m concerned.

If we choose to sin rather than take the high road, we lose out in many ways, but can we still be saved? End up in the same heaven as one who is, say, heterosexual but cheats on their spouse? abuses their babysitter? secretly lusts for their sister-in-law? has been married and divorced 3 times? and on and on…

I know sexual sin is a bad one, but sin is sin. I believe God looks at our hearts more than our actions and measures out rewards accordingly.

Quite frankly, as long as I get there and can drag some with me, I don’t care where I land in the pecking order!

My daughter is 25 next month. She learned to live a secular life from me. I never gave her a solid foundation in Christianity. As least yours has been there and will most likely return. Take comfort in knowing that. I am at fault for my daughter’s lack of faith. You are not.

Dave to Linda – Thanks for the feedback and insights. About your daughter, while it would have been better that your life was a Christian example for your daughter’s formative years, it is not your fault if she never repents and gets saved. Many believers had non-Christian parents but still found the need to repent and believe. With or without you, your daughter needs to realize her spiritual need. So do not be too hard on yourself. And, don’t forget that she has seen that great change in you and I’m sure she knows your “sea shell” story! She must know that you are better today than during your backslidden years. You are a fantastic witness to her now.

We walk by faith not sight, and live by grace not human effort. Romans 8:1 is always a great reminder when we look down on ourselves.

Linda to Dave – And thank you for your feedback. I know it’s not my fault that my daughter is my clone, and we all have to come to our own realization of where we stand with God. I also know she does see a change, and she is a typical, 25 year-old, secular, materialistic female who looks at it like she has all kinds of time to be good, she’s going to be bad while she’s young and free.

As my elderly friend says, “Stop worrying about your daughter. You said she’s just like you, and YOU came around! She will, too!” Then she said, “And don’t preach to her or you’ll just alienate her! Pray and set a good example. That’s all you can do. Someone else will bring her to Christ. God hears praying mothers.”

How to Explain that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to Heaven

A contemporary and often controversial question shot at us regarding Jesus is, “Is He the only way to heaven?” The Bible tells us to always be ready to defend the hope that lies within us (1 Peter 3:15). So I’d like to share 3 approaches we could take when in this situation:

  1. Scriptural Approach – share the relevant verses with gentleness and reverence.
  2. Coy Approach – be intentionally reluctant to reveal the Truth up front. Say, “It depends.” Now you’ve got their ear because many people anticipate the believer to have a straight-forward, quick answer that they plan to reject. Continue, “It depends on if the Bible is God’s Word and if our real enemies are Satan, sin, and death (Jesus was the only one to conquer them).” This can lead to the Truth from the Scriptures. It’s always good to share what Jesus accomplished on the Cross and through His resurrection.
  3. One-to-One Sensitivity Approach (based on Col.4:3-6) – rather than saying “yes” right away, ask relevant questions to the person such as “Do you believe in God? How about Heaven? Do you believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead? Engage the person with more discussion for the purpose of determining where they are at spiritually. End with a penetrating question such as “Since you’ve heard things about what He did, why do you think you’ve ignored finding out what Jesus said all these years?” The claims He made about Himself far outdistance every human that has ever lived. If you seek Truth, it makes sense to start with something that stands out above anything else. You might also ask, “Since all great religious founders are still dead, why wouldn’t you want to believe in Jesus since He is the only one to rise from the dead? If He didn’t, the Bible is a lie and so was Jesus because He said He would rise. If He didn’t rise, someone stole His body because that tomb was empty. If His body was stolen, either His friends or His enemies did it. If His friends did it, why would they be willing to preach something that put their lives in danger since they knew it was a lie? All of them were executed except Judas and John. If His enemies stole it, why didn’t they produce His dead body to prove He did not rise? I’m sure those Pharisees would have loved to be able to do that! By using this approach, you may discover how open they are to God.

“Being ready” for us means we have been praying and reading the Word and trusting the Spirit to do all the work and inspiration. Remember, when people ask this question about “the only way,” it usually means they are closed-minded and are trying to make Christianity look intolerant. Not always, however. In many cases, this conversation will start out with us being on the defensive. It is good strategy to turn that around. Asking them questions about their beliefs can serve to accomplish this and make us more sensitive to where they are coming from. If our answers are “seasoned with salt” and spoken in gentleness and reverence, they can go a long way in that person’s heart over the years, perhaps even for a bystander who also hears our response. God will accomplish much when His Word goes forth from His mouth (Isaiah 55:11). I interpret “from His mouth” as meaning from His Spirit, not ours.


Feedback:

NF – Right on!

GR – Amen without a doubt #1 Grace then Truth…but always Grace first. Thanks for enlightening and brightening my day. I Love you brother Dave

DG – This is great Dave, excellent tactics to turn a skeptic. I would also include the most important method, service in love (agape). If we consider others more important than ourselves and show them love by both helping and meeting legitimate needs, this can open up an amazing door to Life, and soften a person’s heart. Often “Christians” are their own worst enemy by not having the fruit of the spirit. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law” (Galatians 5:22-23). Without love we are NOTHING (1 Corinthians 13:1). Are we being these things at work in the public? I know I struggle sometimes. We also remember the fruit of the spirit in Galatians are the fruit of the Holy Spirit. The fruit of a disciple in Christ are more disciples! Abide in the vine.

PT: I recently read a theologian who said the Bible does not say all had to believe in Christ to make it to heaven. He then went on to tell of those in the Old Testament who did not know Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior and still made it to heaven–beginning from Adam and Eve until Jesus birth. So the legalist is wrong if they say Jesus is the only way to heaven according to Scripture. He went on to point out that a good starting point with those who think Christians are closed-minded to other ways to heaven is tell them of all those in the Bible who made it to heaven without Jesus as their personal Savior, then walk them through to the New Testament and the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Dave to PT: Thanks, Pat. I understand this man’s approach to unsaved people of today. However, it is difficult to say for certainty who was saved in the OT times. For example, can we even say that Solomon was saved since he backslid terribly toward the end of his life with no evidence of repentance? I’ve always thought that people in the OT times were saved if they believed in the true God and His Word, and in the promise of a Messiah. I’m not sure though. No one could successfully live by The Law, so salvation must have been by some kind of faith. But what kind of faith was it? Habakkuk proclaimed that the “righteous man shall live by faith.” The OT does not get specific like the NT does. In addition, many people then and now had (have) never heard of His Word to the Israeli nation or by some NT believer. What about them? Rather than speculate, I think the best answer is to say we do not know for sure, but what we do know for sure is that God is just and good. So we leave those judgments to Him. Furthermore, if we emphasize that some OT folks were saved without Jesus, then modern folks may conclude that this is still an option when it is not. The main point to the unsaved today is that they HAVE heard about Jesus and they will make a decision for or against Him and His Word…and a “no decision” is against Him.

PT to Dave: I too struggled with this theologian’s remarks. But I think we can say with certainty that the writers of the OT and many others made it to heaven…like Moses, Noah, Abraham, Elijah, David, all those in Hebrews 11 and many others. What he and you are saying, I think, is that God’s ways are truly not our ways and those who try be judge over others (like the legalist) as to who gets into heaven and who does not is not for us to determine, though we can have a good idea by their fruit (like Abraham’s faith). It’s really a great mystery to me, after all, Jesus was there in the OT in the Triune God, just not yet in the flesh. Plus, I like what Chuck Swindoll always points out–the Old Testament is always pointing toward Christ’s coming, the New Testament letters are pointing back to Christ’s coming, and Revelation is pointing to Christ’s second coming. And Jesus words will always remain true: “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:16). As for me, I know I am just a sinner saved by the grace of God in Jesus Christ, and that’s good enough for me.

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